1. Home
  2. Student Experience
  3. GradWell Podcast
  4. Environmental Well-Being

Environmental Well-Being

How can designing with neurodiversity in mind positively impact all students’ academic success? In this episode, John Muckler, director of IT facilities and operations in the College of Engineering, discusses how the built environment can affect our thoughts and feelings, and why the spaces “in between” matter just as much as the classroom when it comes to our academic success. Explore how thinking differently about sound, lighting, open space, and furniture can positively shape your academic performance and how an expert like John is a key resource at Michigan to help you take your environmental well-being to the next level.

View transcript

Give this episode a listen and let us know what you think! Follow GradWell and join us on our journey to greater well-being for graduate students at the University of Michigan.

Guests

John Muckler

John Muckler plays a vital role in coordinating and managing the facilities and operations for Michigan Engineering IT, overseeing the production and planning of computer labs, classrooms, and other learning spaces across campus. He provides leadership in project management and planning for the College and other campus units, including new construction and renovations, and offers consultation on furniture recommendations and specifications. As a key resource for assistive and adaptive technology, John guides students, faculty, and staff to the appropriate experts and resources on campus, and often directly assists with necessary furniture accommodations. Additionally, he serves as the Director of Facilities for the Duderstadt Center.

Resources

Something small to do right now for your environmental well-being: Check out the Nature Rx app for over 100 spots of nature and beauty on and around campus. Find your new favorite spot today!

Transcript

Sam Hobson:

Hey, welcome to GradWell, a limited series podcast that explores various ways the University of Michigan can support its graduate students in their journey to greater well-being in our everyday lives. Brought to you by Rackham Graduate School. Each episode will explore a different dimension of well-being by interviewing a resource on campus that can help you thrive a little better. I’m Sam Hobson, a PhD candidate and a GSSA in Rackham’s Professional Development and Engagement office. My fellow grad students, it’s time we start placing as much importance on ourselves as we do our work. You’re worth the effort.

John Muckler:

If we foster a caring and secure classroom environment, for example, we significantly enhance a graduate student’s social and emotional skill development.

Sam Hobson:

Hello, hello. On today’s episode we’ll be talking about environmental well-being with John Muckler, director of IT facilities and operations in the College of Engineering. I’m excited to have you all with John and me today. All right, let’s dive in.

John Muckler plays a vital role in coordinating and managing the facilities and operations for Michigan Engineering IT. He oversees the production and planning of computer labs, classrooms, and other learning spaces across campus. John provides leadership in project management and planning for the college and other campus units, including new construction and renovations. He also offers consultation on furniture recommendations and specifications. As a key resource for assistive and adaptive technology, John guides students, faculty, and staff to the appropriate experts and resources across campus. And often directly assists with necessary furniture accommodations. Additionally, John serves as the director of facilities for the Duderstadt Center. Hi, John. Thank you for being here with me today.

John Muckler:

Hello, and thank you for inviting me today. I very much look forward to our conversation.

Sam Hobson:

Me too. John, can you please tell us a little bit about how you got into this role?

John Muckler:

I could probably talk about this for an hour. Because I started my career here in 1986, but I will spare everyone. After graduating from U of M in the ’80s with a regional planning and management degree, I happened to stumble upon a position in the College of Engineering that very much intrigued me. The position would allow me to use my management background, which I had been managing people since, I believe 1978 at a Burger King.

But this position really allowed me to use my management background, but stay engaged with students and the campus community, which I really enjoyed. It started with me being responsible for just managing and developing computer labs and learning spaces. But in the ’90s, I started working very closely with Jim Knox, who actually became my mentor from the Adaptive Technology Center in the Shapiro Library. So this was a little bit of a hobby with all the hats that I was wearing, but very passionate about it. And over the years, Jim and I worked very closely on accommodating students, not only with system and adaptive technology needs, but also their physical environments where they worked and studied.

It really took off when the Duderstadt Center opened in 1996, and I happened to be a tenant here. We now had thousands of square feet of learning space to experiment with. So for the first time, the furniture and environment really came into play. And universal design, before it was even a concept, led the way. We were now going beyond the ADA. We were now thinking about design spaces, making them accessible to students regardless of age, disability, and other factors. And the rest is history. My passion for accommodating students grew to doing the same for faculty and staff. And I simply just broadened my education to include design, ergonomics, and especially a focus on silent disabilities.

Sam Hobson:

Thank you, John. Can you say more about what you mean by going beyond the ADA?

John Muckler:

I guess just thinking about beyond the defined rules, if you will. In other words, thinking about all sorts of factors. Inclusivity, what are students’ needs beyond just things at proper heights? Egress, things like that.

Sam Hobson:

Yeah, that makes sense. I am excited to learn more as we go further into our conversation. So John, I know that environmental well-being can often be seen as having to do with the natural environment, but as the director of facilities here at Michigan, you deal with inside spaces and the built environment. From that perspective, what does environmental well-being mean to you?

John Muckler:

It may sound a little philosophical or whatever, but it’s about cherishing and nurturing the connection between us, our students, our living and working environment, and the planet. Also recognizing and understanding how our environment influences thoughts and emotions as well as our actions, and how they affect our surroundings. This awareness empowers us to make decisions that foster such things as sustainability. And it shows the respects for each other. Honestly, we really need to have an integrated approach, caring for both the built environment and student well-being. And creating a warm and welcoming environment is key for me, to building especially graduate student success and engagement.

Sam Hobson:

You know what? I’ve never thought of my success being tied to the built environment and having a warm and welcoming environment. And you’ve got my wheels spinning in terms of, well, what does that look like?

John Muckler:

The informal discussions I’ve had with students, not only in the quiet space, which we will talk about later, really revolved around student success and how they felt when they came to campus, in between classes, at night, and things like that.

Sam Hobson:

The liminal spaces, right? The in between.

John Muckler:

That’s right.

Sam Hobson:

You don’t think about how those in-between spaces can affect the not in-between. The times that we are trying to perform and how getting to the performance space contributes to our ability to perform and how we show up. That’s fascinating. I am excited for the rest of our conversation.

Before we move on though, John, you said that the built environment can affect thoughts and feelings. Can you elaborate a little bit?

John Muckler:

When I was speaking with students and things, it actually revolved more around sensory and distractions. How students just felt comfortable in a space when they studied. The concept of open concept, of everybody being around had a negative effect on many of the students I talked to. The old library carrels, they wished were coming back. So they could have a feeling of safety and privacy.

Sam Hobson:

Safety and privacy. And how important that is in our journey as grad students and our growth as intellectuals. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. John, what are some unexpected things that can get in the way of environmental well-being, particularly for grad students?

John Muckler:

Well, interesting enough, first and foremost is a need for more inclusive studying and learning spaces on campus. I don’t think graduate students are often… They don’t realize the importance of these spaces until they discover them. Then the few that they do discover are usually currently very busy. One of the biggest challenges in enhancing well-being is transferring how the support is viewed and provided by campus. Many graduate students might hesitate to seek help due to an existing stigma or perception that asking for support may signify some failure. Initially, most students’ concerns are not really severe, but they can escalate into major issues if left undressed, as you would know. Hence, it’s critical and crucial for UM to offer an accessible and effective resource for diverse advice and support. It’s something that some of the grad students I’ve talked to just have encountered accidentally.

Sam Hobson:

Okay. So I see, you don’t know what you don’t have or what’s missing, until you run into or you find what has been missing and then you recognize… It’s not that, oh, now you feel a lack, but you recognize… You’re able to put a name to and label a lack that you have felt but didn’t know how to qualify it and how to describe it and talk about it with others. Is that what you-

John Muckler:

And also how to promote change. How do we get more of it?

Sam Hobson:

Right. How do we address it if I don’t even know what I need?

John Muckler:

Exactly.

Sam Hobson:

That makes sense. That makes sense. And so this proactive approach that you’re suggesting to safe and private and accessible built environments for learning and for not just student well-being, but for student growth is something that will help students come to understand that things that they need. Yeah?

John Muckler:

Exactly.

Sam Hobson:

Okay. Cool. Thank you. So John, you’ve created spaces around campus that are meant to positively contribute to students’ emotional and mental well-being. How is the built environment able to influence other dimensions of our well-being, our emotional, social, intellectual, professional?

John Muckler:

So Sam, if we foster a caring and secure classroom environment, for example, we significantly enhance a graduate student’s social and emotional skill development. In these supportive settings, students are more at ease approaching and interacting with their faculty, participating in group activities and discussions, and forming meaningful connections with their peers. I’ve noticed graduate students serve a critical role in their ability to establish rapport and create a safe space within the learning environments. If we can establish dedicated learning and studying areas, these are essential for maintaining focus and efficiency. And by setting aside specific spaces for work and study, distinct from everyday living areas like we talked about before, you create an environment that fosters much better concentration. A designated workspace acts as a mental cue, signaling the shift from relaxation to us being more productive or to productivity.

Sam Hobson:

This mental cue, this sort of… What is it? Like demarcation in our minds of, this is when I need to bring this type of energy, of concentration, of focus. Rather than… What I’m hearing is that you’re saying that, it helps us know how to be in the spaces that we’re in. And provide us maybe with a little backpack of, “Here are the resources that you need in this space. And the resources that you might make use of…” For instance, like you were saying, “…in the relaxation areas aren’t necessarily what you need here. And so here is a signpost. Here is the vibe that will let your brain know that a switch needs to be made.”

Otherwise, you might be bringing in energy or resources that may not be as conducive to this space, and then you’re fighting with yourself. Right?

John Muckler:

Mm-hmm.

Sam Hobson:

But maybe you don’t even recognize that you’re fighting with yourself and you’re like, “Why am I struggling?” And so your suggestion of particular spaces that are able to create this mental note within us are able to then positively influence other aspects of our well-being, because we’re not having that internal struggle as we try to learn and work and grow.

John Muckler:

Exactly. It signals that shift. The space over in Beyster has a very busy open environment outside of it where students are having coffee and relaxing and getting ready for their classes. But when they enter this designated space of inclusivity, they find their spot in there. And that little change from relaxation or socialization to, “I’m going to now be productive.” Really kicks in.

Sam Hobson:

Yes, yes. The struggle that many of us, myself included, can have with productivity and trying to turn it on, you’re saying that the built environment can help with that rather than-

John Muckler:

Completely.

Sam Hobson:

…us having to try to force ourselves to do that and then wondering why we’re having issues.

John Muckler:

And the way I’ve created or designed competing spaces and learning spaces over time, I’ve really learned to understand that that built environment is so important. Just coming into four white walls and somewhat comfortable furniture in a very open environment does not really promote productivity.

Sam Hobson:

John, what would you say does promote productivity in your professional opinion?

John Muckler:

A space full of diversity and comfortable surroundings, and thinking of everything from privacy to small group… Everything comfortable. But most importantly, giving the student choices.

Sam Hobson:

Oh, I love that idea. That feels very liberating to recognize that we need and deserve choice in how we’re able to show up in a productive way. And I’ve never thought, I’ll be honest, of comfort being associated with productivity. Like you said, a lot of the time the narrative is like a sterile environment should be the most productive. Like you said, four white walls and some chairs. And you should be able to produce because there’s no distractions, right?

John Muckler:

Right.

Sam Hobson:

And so I am really taking with me this idea of comfort and how that is connected with one’s ability to be productive. John, I’ve asked you here for this episode on environmental well-being specifically because of the role you played in creating a study space on North Campus that was designed with neurodiversity in mind. Can you please paint us a detailed picture of what this space looks like?

John Muckler:

It’s been very exciting and fulfilling, and it’s really promoted a lot of momentum across campus, not only for students, but also now faculty and staff spaces. The intent was to create a learning and studying space that gives access and inclusion to all, but also assists other students with neurodivergent conditions. These include, but are not limited to sensory concerns, some forms of autism, ADHD, dyslexia, generalized anxiety disorder, and some other challenges. For those of you who don’t know, neurodiversity basically refers to a vast range of neurocognitive variability within the population. Designing with neurodiversity in mind creates environments that offer students choices, which we talked about, Sam. We were basically expanding what we had learned in classrooms and especially things that I’ve looked over time for hidden disabilities. Space would not only contribute to students with health, social, and emotional well-being, but also again what we talked about before, Sam, which is improve academic performance.

The goal was to provide a range of sensory spaces in this space that work for any student regardless if they have a disability or not. So we created this space with furniture and space arrangements for physical and cognitive disabilities that also limited distractions for all types. And we used a variety of furniture options for choice, posture, privacy, single versus small group. There was a lot of things that we kept in mind. It was very important to have wide aisles for better egress and sense of safety. So it’s very wide open. We also added biophilic design, which is natural lighting, plants, sound masking, things like that. Because it connected students with nature by incorporating the natural elements into that built environment.

Sam Hobson:

That’s awesome. Thank you. So with the choice you’re saying that there are… You mentioned posture, you mentioned single versus working with a group. You mentioned different sound volumes and sound levels. Why does this matter? I know we’ve talked about it, but help us truly understand here. Why does all of this matter? Wouldn’t a few different types of chairs or a couple of tables for group and then a couple of single desks… Why is that not enough?

John Muckler:

So that’s an interesting, maybe challenging question. But the one thing we did, interestingly enough, and it’ll be important especially if we hope to be creating another space in another department this summer.

What we did at the start, in the discussion of this project was, we took the branding off our space. So it didn’t look like a computer lab. And we called it… If you walk up to it says, “This is a quiet space.” So immediately, students gained the respect of each other when they went in there. They understood it was quiet, even though there’s, for example… Everything in there has an acoustic property to it. So, Sam, I think when you walk in, you understand that, “I can go in one of these booths, I won’t hear a thing. Okay. I can go into a place where there’s like… There’s still nine desktop computers in there, but I can go into somewhat of a space and work on a computer, but it’s cocoon-like for me. Okay, I’m still protected from distractions, et cetera. I can go into a very acoustic booth and pull a little acoustic divider and I can go to sleep.” I promote sleeping in there, Sam.

Sam Hobson:

Wow. Okay.

John Muckler:

Sleeping is good. So there’s a sense of comfort when you walk in there. I can go over and sit in one of the most comfortable chairs, acoustic chairs on campus, with my laptop and not see anybody, but I’m still in the room and I still feel safe and secure. And that was the intent, was give people who visit the space, give them choices. What I don’t have in there, I don’t have any just regular tables with chairs. Everything has a purpose to eliminate or to reduce distractions, to cut down noise. So we’ve created this quiet space. And like I said, students go in there in between classes or to study late at night or whatever. And it is full from basically 9:00 AM till 9:00 PM. It’s open 24 by 7, but there’s never an empty seat in there.

Sam Hobson:

I am so glad to hear that, John. I really am. How did you know what to do, in terms of design and process? This sounds like a big undertaking.

John Muckler:

It was a culmination… Obviously, I’ve been here for a long time. And it was a culmination of years of experience, especially listening and accommodating students. I have ADHD and I’ve talked to a number of them who’ve had issues with that kind of disability in the classrooms. So I thought I would try to pull it over and start thinking about this in study spaces and learning spaces. So first and foremost, I partnered with a very passionate UM interior designer who basically started studying neurodiversity with me, and how could we transform this space. We also utilized evidence-based design, which is basically drawing on collaboration and sensory research from a particular furniture manufacturer, somebody who was working on neurodiversity and sensory concerns. So we got a lot of their feedback. So when we started the layouts and designs of things, there was a lot of discussion about, “Don’t use too much furniture, but use the appropriate furniture.” How do we blend it? We want to be intentional as to what we’re using.

And of course, we consulted with other subject experts on campus, SSD, the Knox Center, et cetera. We consulted with student groups. We spent countless hours in discussions focused on engaging the senses through textures, finishes, the sound, layout, lighting color, quality, the shape and function of furniture. So I could consider myself a, quote, “expert”, but I’m not. So we got a lot of subject experts. I do love furniture and I do understand furniture, and I’ve been studying furniture for decades. But it really took a team. And what was really important was student input. And I did that very informally.

What we’re doing now is, we have an online survey that we’re getting some information for. But we’re also, Sam, going to be doing something soon where we’re going to put QR codes on all the furniture to get feedback as to why students have… Is this their favorite studying space in the space? Why do they like this furniture? And we’re going to use that data, or I’m going to use that data of course, for future spaces. And honestly, because of the way that space is, I think that we will learn from it and we will understand what students like about each area or each space in the facility. But I think we’ll learn what more they want.

Sam Hobson:

I love the idea of putting QR codes on the furniture. I think that’s brilliant. I am so excited for the data that you will collect from that, and just where it will take you as a result. I think that’s so cool. John, what are some small things that grad students can do right now towards building up their environmental well-being?

John Muckler:

It’s a challenging issue, and I would start by asking a few questions. How can I create environments that promote healthy, productive habits? How can we or you, as a graduate student, support sustainable practices? How can we engage in various programs and projects that enhance your environmental well-being? It’s just interesting that in our learning and studying spaces, it’s crucial for all students to foster a cultural respect which contributes to a positive and supportive environment. This in turn, of course, sets the stage for personal and collective growth. Sounds like I’m giving a speech, forgive me.

Graduate students have the opportunity to become agents of change and help shape the University of Michigan’s commitment to collaboration and inclusivity. Graduate students often experience stress, that I’ve learned and speaking with them, due to educational demands and a need for professional development. And although academic career and well-being resources on campus may sometimes seem focused on undergraduates a little bit, I’ve always thought that, they’re also designed for graduate students. And those facing these challenges can greatly benefit from career advisors and of course well-being services that are available to them. And they just should not be concerned that they’re geared towards one group or another.

Sam Hobson:

Yeah, that makes sense. So we need to take advantage of all that Michigan has to offer us and recognize that we have the potential to be able to incite change within our classrooms, within our departments in terms of how to make a space more conducive to ours and our students and our peers and colleagues’ well-being. And that just has a, as I’ve said, with others, a reverberating effect onto the other aspects of our well-being, if we can start to focus on the material, and everything builds from that.

John Muckler:

Very well said, and I couldn’t have said it better.

Sam Hobson:

Thank you, John. I appreciate it. John, can you please share any specific resources around campus that you know, that can support graduate students’ environmental well-being?

John Muckler:

Well, first of all, I must commend you and others on the excellent well-being resource list on the GradWell podcast page. Because I went there first thinking, “Yeah, they have that. Yeah, they have that.” [inaudible 00:23:40]. And this is one of your links there. I often direct students to one resource in particular, which is the Well-Being Collective. I love that one. It’s informative, it’s easy to navigate. It truly enhances the experience of living, working, and learning at U of M.

The College of Engineering has an inclusive space website that is continually involving. I hope it will soon feature dedicated areas for sensory and distraction concerns. It doesn’t yet, but I hope that like the place in Beyster and the ones that we create this summer start to not only propagate for the College of Engineering, but as a campus resource. And believe, I’ve showed the space to probably 30 to 40 groups since it opened. So I know there’s that momentum I talked to you about. So anyways, I’d like to think that that site will have a purpose.

And additionally, Sam, I often recommend that students visit the HR well-being page. It’s more geared for staff and faculty, but there’s some tricks and things that I’ve discovered there that perhaps were not left out, but it just offers some other further education and resources for students.

Sam Hobson:

So John, I feel like you’ve left a resource out of that list.

John Muckler:

So, obviously, if graduate students have any concerns or questions regarding anything with accommodations, especially furniture and anything to help their productivity, I am a resource. I’m an easy resource to email because my email address is very old. It’s John M. And I can especially help if there are concerns not only on campus, but ones at home for improving productivity in the home. And that means sit-stand workstations, particular chairs of comfort that they might need, any other type of accommodations or assistive or adaptive technology. And of course, if I don’t have the answer for them, I’ll direct them to the proper resource on campus.

Sam Hobson:

Wonderful. Thank you. Yes, I think you are a wealth of knowledge. And the way we’ve spoken off camera, you’ve been so generous with your, “Reach out to me. I want to share. I want folks to know.” Like you said, you told me that your biggest passion out of all of your many hats that you wear here is student success. And so I really hope that our students listening here can take that away, that, John cares really, really deeply about our success. And as a student, it feels really good to know that.

John Muckler:

I like how you said, “John cares.” We’ll ride on that, because I do.

Sam Hobson:

Okay. Here are three takeaways and something small that you can do towards your environmental well-being right now. One, check out Michigan’s HR website for well-being. Even though it’s geared towards faculty and staff, it has a myriad resources both on and off campus that graduate students can take advantage of to enhance every dimension of your well-being.

Two, John has decades of experience in how to make your learning environment more conducive to academic success, both on campus and at home. You can email him at [email protected] with any questions that you have. He wants to hear from you.

And three, remember that your environmental well-being plays an integral role in your academic and professional success. So start to look into how you can increase feelings of comfort and safety in spaces where you work, learn, and study. And for something small that you can do right now for your environmental well-being, check out Michigan’s Nature Rx App. They have a map of over 100 spots of nature and beauty on and around campus. They also have a Google Calendar with monthly events that are geared towards our environmental well-being. I know we all have our favorite spots, but I’m sure there’s a beautiful place on that map that you didn’t know existed. You can find all of these links and more at rackham.umich.edu\gradwell. Please email us with any questions at [email protected].

And make sure to join us next time for a special two-part episode that features Michigan’s chief health officer, Dr. Robert Ernst and the Recreational Department’s assistant director of fitness and wellness, Ellen Taylor, where I chat with them about physical well-being. See you then.

Hey, hardworking grad student, thank you for turning into GradWell. I hope you can take something away from this episode with you. If you like what you heard, be sure to write a review, like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. For more information, check us out on social @umichgradschool.